Talk:Hyksos

This is an article that looks at the evidence albeit through creationist eyes

If you are not a creationist and you do not believe the Bible to be true, please do not edit this post. There are plenty of other places to express your views where people will not want to revert your edits.--Drnhawkins 06:05, 19 April 2014 (EDT)

This article requires EVIDENCE. --Drnhawkins 06:05, 19 April 2014 (EDT)

PLEASE NO NOT MAKE STATEMENTS THAT ARE NOT SUPPORTED BY SOME EVIDENCE.

ACCEPTABLE EVIDENCE MAY INCLUDE ANCIENT DOCUMENTS SUCH AS THE BIBLE IF THEY ARE FACTUAL HISTORICAL ACCOUNTS.

PHOTOS MAY BE USED AS EVIDENCE.

AS DATES AND TIME ARE CRITICAL PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING WHEN BUILDING AN ARGUEMENT BASED UPON DATES.

PLEASE STATE THE SOURCE OF ALL DATES THAT ARE QUOTED

Please make use of discussion pages before making statements that contradict other contributors

If you plan to make big changes to an article, please announce it on a discussion page first.

Rather than delete the work of others, perhaps make a discussion about it. If it is clearly wrong, move it to a discussion page and explain why giving the reason - eg "lack of evidence" or "conclusions not valid because".

Walk in the light, do things openly and put your name to it on the discussion page, especially if you delete the work of another author from main space.--Drnhawkins 06:05, 19 April 2014 (EDT)

Please allow for the fact that even Bible based creationists may interpret some evidence differently

An example of this could include the length of time that the Jews were in Egypt (long vs short sojourn)

Please do not delete other people's work without making a note on the relevant discussion page and giving the reason with some supportive evidence.

For example if you state that Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt in the 18th dynasty please give sufficient evidence that supports the strength of your assertion.

Validate your work by showing how it fits into the "Big Picture" or a "timeline"

Showing how your assertions fit with other historical character matches or contemporaries is a powerful way or validating your argument.

Contributions by Joshualight

The Hyksos "rulers from a foreign land/Shepherd Kings" were credited as having introduced the lute, lyre, horse-and-chariot and compound-bow into Egypt[1]. They were formidable warriors. In (Genesis 41:43) we see Pharaoh making Joseph a ruler and parading him through the streets of Egypt in his "second chariot". This event (using chariots) clearly places the reign of the Hyksos Kings before the arrival of Joseph. The best estimate of this timeframe is near 1900 BC at the boundary of the 12th Dynasty just after the Hyksos had deposed them and set aside the rule of all prior Pharaohs, including Djoser, who reigned in the centuries prior and had no access to chariot technology. The reference to chariots is important because Djoser is sometimes confused as the Pharaoh of Joseph, while Joseph is likewise linked to Imhotep. The significant differences between Joseph and Imhotep far outweigh any gossamer-thin circumstantial or superficial similarities. Joseph was famous for agrarian logistics (expected for a man with only a shepherd's education) and Imhotep was credited as having amassed and applied more scientific knowledge than any several people could apply in a lifetime. Without chariot technology, Djoser could not have been the Pharaoh of Joseph. Without deep scientific knowledge, Joseph could not have been Imhotep. The Famine Stele notes that Imhotep saved Egypt from a seven year famine, but does so at the end of the famine in real-time using applied science and technology. Joseph on the other hand, in Scripture is noted as saving Egypt in a time of plenty, predicting that it would end with the onset of a famine. The Hyksos ushered in a time of mud-brick construction, setting aside the stone-casting/agglomerated-stone Pyramids constructed by prior dynasties. This carried through to the 18th Dynasty, where the Pharaohs enslaved the Israelites to continue making mud bricks for both the construction of Pyramids and the construction of common establishments such as palaces and homes. The Hyksos kings, being Canaanite, honored Joseph and his family for many years. Pharaoh Ahmose I[2] is credited for having deposed the Hyksos with superior chariot technology and weapons. The Victor Stele records his victory. This began the 18th Dynasty in the 16th century BC, less than a century before the birth of Moses. Ahmose I is referenced in the Bible only as the enigmatic king "who knew not Joseph" (Exodus 1:8). Moses rose to prominence in the 18th Dynasty with Tutmosis-III as the Pharaoh of his exile and Amenhotep II as the Pharaoh of the Exodus. Ahmose I lost his father Seqenenre and his brother Kahmose fighting the Hyksos. The Hyksos were forced to leave Egypt and Ahmose I became the first pharaoh of the 18th dynasty (which was the beginning of New Kingdom of Egypt as it is known). Ahmose I became the pharaoh at a very young age and was coregent with his mother Queen Aahotep in the early part of his reign. The rule of the Hyksos constitutes most of Egypt's second intermediate period (when foreigners ruled between the end of the Middle Kingdom (12-13th dynasty) and the beginning of the New Kingdom (18th dynasty)). The Hyksos ruled in Lower Egypt from roughly 1900 BC (when they elevated Joseph to power) to around 1590 BC when Ahmose I deposed them.

Above by Joshua Light

Joshua - you make very sweeping conclusions based on "chariots"

We cannot really know whether the Hebrew term chariot used in Genesis 41:43 is the same as what we think of by the term - ie a horse drawn cart with wheels that a driver stood on. Maybe there were chariots in the third dynasty, but they were not of the horse drawn type with wheels. The Egyptians of the third dynasty were pretty good at transporting massive limestone blocks around. They must of had some sort of cart.

If there were chariots in the 12th dynasty, the reason that we cannot find them could be that they all went to the bottom of the Red Sea. In any case, it is better to use this discussion page to make comments about what you do not believe. Leave the main space for what you do believe. Having read a few things that you have written, I am left wondering what you do actually believe.

I think that you believe Moses and Joseph came after the 12th dynasty but you do not give much solid evidence for who you think they were and what pharaoh they served. It is not clear what you believe and it is very airy fairy, eg Joseph was somewhere after the Hyksos.

Not only are you very vague, but you do not even have a "big picture" or timeline to test your views against.

Given that Joseph and Moses had such a significant impact on Egypt, you would expect to find evidence of them some where.

--Drnhawkins 03:24, 21 April 2014 (EDT)